this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2024
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Political Memes

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

I am a libertarian minarchist. Look it up before you form ideas.

I don't like Harris but I'd much rather have her over Trump. And that's how I'll vote.

I strongly recommend everyone should research your local elections and vote for candidates that best represent your views and mindsets on a local level. The FPtP system makes third parties mostly unviable in influencing national policy.

[–] MarjorineFailureGroan 7 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

I too will vote Harris, but I think it's important to understand that voting out of fear is not going to fix our extremely broken two party system. Voting third party is not a vote for Trump, I think it's often a vote born of a broken two party system.

Despite knowing that I can't bring myself to vote third party out of fear that I may not get another chance to vote if Trump takes power.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

That is the system though. Democracy isn't really about getting what you want. That's impossible under any system other than a dictatorship where you are the dictator. Parasocial psychology has lead a lot of people thinking that Trump getting what he wants is what they want. But that won't work out well for anyone.

Democracy is really about removing the worst people from power and preventing them from getting power in the first place. Over many years in something akin to natural selection you can have progress. But like evolution, it goes slowly.

Voting third party isn't a brave choice, it's just a fantasy. Even in a proportional representation system, it's still a fantasy, just you'd see maybe a few powerless people sitting in a legislature complaining on C-Span (which nobody will watch) instead of on social media.

Politics is about power and compromise. Vote for a representative that has a reasonable chance of winning, and write to them to encourage them to compromise closer to your position on things. That's actually effective, people that go on about a fantasy world where they just tick a box and whatever they want will happen are just being silly.

[–] MarjorineFailureGroan 2 points 6 hours ago

I've written to many of my state and federal legislators over the span of 20+ years. it's not effective. We need campaign finance before, we need to overturn citizens United, and we need to change our two party system.

I understand your perspective but I disagree on some points.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago (4 children)

It literally exactly is a vote for trump. We have shown you morons the math a million times by now, you're just being willfully resistant to acknowledging what you're doing to endanger the republic.

[–] MarjorineFailureGroan 0 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Settle down and re-read what I wrote. I'm not voting for Trump. I don't think it's hyperbolic to say a third party is crucial for our Republic.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

The math has been explained to you endlessly. You can't escape voting for either Harris or Trump because you want to pretend you're above it all and superior to us who have to live with the consequences of supposed good people like you standing there and doing nothing.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (5 children)

The only way things change is if more people are informed and active. Do what you can to help implement ranked choice voting.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago (5 children)

Can’t wait for Blue MAGA to win so they can go to brunch and not do any form of direct action or mutual aid for 4 years while the genocides continue, then shit on leftists for not voting hard enough at the next election.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Not sure what you expect them to do about the Chinese genocide against the Uyghers, or the ongoing Darfur genocide. That said, it would be nice if they did would at least try something.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

When you shit inside the skulls of your enemies, but they use that shit to form shitty opinions about life and politics :(

[–] anakin78z 9 points 10 hours ago

Posters like this always assume that their candidate is the other option if the person doesn't abstain or vote 3rd party.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

To convince Greens or Carlins (people who don't vote because the Democrats are still too evil from their point-of-view) to vote for Democrats, you need to understand yourself and them. Once you do that, you'll be able to offer more convincing arguments to support your position.

If you're voting for Democrats, you possibly agree with the following scale of evilness:

  • 10 Hitler
  • 9 Stalin
  • 8.5 Trump
  • 8 Republicans and people who vote for them
  • 7
  • 6
  • ~5-3 elected Democratic party members
  • 2
  • 1 you
  • 0 Jesus

The thing is that Greens and Carlins see the world very differently:

  • 10 people making the biosphere unlivable thru overpopulation
  • 9 factory farmers and commercial fishing companies
  • 8
  • 7 Hitler, Stalin
  • 6
  • 5 George W. Bush, Putin
  • 4 Trump, Republicans, and people who vote for them
  • 3 Gore, Obama, Democrats, and people who vote for them
  • 2
  • 1 Sanders
  • 0
  • -1
  • -2
  • -3
  • -4
  • -5
  • -6
  • -7 them
  • -8
  • -9
  • -10

The Greens' and Carlins' priorities are very different. They may think that choosing to make the biosphere unlivable is the worst thing you can do, because without a biosphere that supports life, nothing else matters.

They may think that torturing trillions of fish to death every year, and enslaving hundreds of billions of animals in torturous conditions every year, is worse than all genocides and wars in all of history combined. They think that supporting even a single genocide is bad.

They may think that given the choice between popular Hitler, popular Stalin, and unpopular Gandhi; they'd rather vote for Gandhi than the popular lesser evil, because that specific evil is omnicidally evil. It's better to vote for good and fail, than it is to vote for evil and succeed.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

For me its even simpler though. All of these logical shenanigans are the circular energy that fuels the myth around the unchangeable two party system. If people simply voted for the candidate based on their values and policy, literally everyone to a T, it would shatter the two party system into fragments, and we would have to do something to accommodate them.

Thats at least my theory, although I still voted Harris because in my case my vote is in a place that matters. I would say I'm about half and half happy and upset about it but thats the best I could manage with the circumstances.

I do think momentum is building though if we can continue it through the coming years.

[–] chiliedogg 6 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

Your theory has been proven wrong every single time it's ever been put to the test.

[–] TokenBoomer 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Example of when it was tested?

[–] chiliedogg 5 points 6 hours ago

Yeah. Every election in the US. Everybody can vote for whoever they want. And when people vote for someone that isn't one of the majority parties we get George W Bush instead of Al Gore.

If just 1% of Nader's voters had voted for Gore instead imagine how much better our would would be.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

No it wouldn't, the two largest parties from that first vote would eventually consume everything else and then we'd be right back where we started.

Unless you intend to abolish FPTP, arguing your intention to vote third party is mathematically the same as arguing your intention to vote for the 2 party candidate who is least like you.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 hours ago (4 children)

You do know a vote is worth more than just the tally it adds to your candidate right? A vote not changing the result of an election is not the same as not having an effect on politics.

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[–] [email protected] 51 points 14 hours ago (11 children)

This is the most horrible way to convince people to vote with you. I, personally, would tell you to go fuck yourself if I weren't already voting for Harris. Please stop that. You need to convince people why they should vote for your candidate by showing them the difference, not this "or else" bullshit. and if they are not convinced, you let it go. People are free with their damn votes.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Trump's track record and intentions for his next term are crystal clear. They are clearly and demonstrably worse than harris'plans or Biden/harris' previous term.

That info is widely available. To ignore it now, and claim to need "convincing" is madness at best, or bad faith at worst.

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[–] someguy3 63 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (35 children)

Abstaining or voting 3rd party to "make Dems listen" doesn't work. If anyone thinks they can play Mexican Standoff, you can't because the Dems have an out: the center voter. Every time they lose, they go to the center to find voters.

And remember they need all 3 of presidency, house of representatives, and senate to pass pretty much anything. If they don't have all 3 they will go to the center to find voters. Some people call this rachet effect, but really they're looking for voters. Want them to stop 'racheting'? Then give them consistent and overwhelming victories.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I live in a red state, and the Democratic Party cannot even get enough warm bodies to ruin for every office here. The Libertarians do better with their candidates than the Democrats.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

The obviously the tactical strategy is to vote libertarian

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