this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023

47 points (96.1% liked)

Android

27692 readers

356 users here now

DROID DOES

Welcome to the droidymcdroidface-iest, Lemmyest (Lemmiest), test, bestest, phoniest, pluckiest, snarkiest, and spiciest Android community on Lemmy (Do not respond)! Here you can participate in amazing discussions and events relating to all things Android.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules

1. All posts must be relevant to Android devices/operating system.

2. Posts cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

3. No spam, self promotion, or upvote farming. Sources engaging in these behavior will be added to the Blacklist.

4. Non-whitelisted bots will be banned.

5. Engage respectfully: Harassment, flamebaiting, bad faith engagement, or agenda posting will result in your posts being removed. Excessive violations will result in temporary or permanent ban, depending on severity.

6. Memes are not allowed to be posts, but are allowed in the comments.

7. Posts from clickbait sources are heavily discouraged. Please de-clickbait titles if it needs to be submitted.

8. Submission statements of any length composed of your own thoughts inside the post text field are mandatory for any microblog posts, and are optional but recommended for article/image/video posts.

Community Resources:

We are Android girls*,

In our Lemmy.world.

The back is plastic,

It's fantastic.

*Well, not just girls: people of all gender identities are welcomed here.

Our Partner Communities:

[email protected]

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

What is inherently better about using GrapheneOS vs Other Privacy Focused ROMs? (lemm.ee)

submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/android

16 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I know that GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone. And that it has a lot of control over permissions and has some privacy features. But it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you; much less data, but still some. Now OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG which in addition to giving you the APIs, it uses less battery and has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data. CalyxOS and Lineage don't have the crazy hardening modifications that GrapheneOS has, but Android is already crazy secure compared to something like Windows or Linux without a properly configured SELinux or AppArmor. Why have Graphene over Calyx?

all 23 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago

GrapheneOS has a lot of security features that make it basically impossible to compromise your phone

This is very dangerous thinking. No software is perfect; there are always ways to get in.

Now, in practice most people aren't victims of targetted attacks and even devices with dozens of known local privilege escalation and remote code execution exploits won't ever be attacked but those who will cannot rely on "x is basically impossible to compromise". It takes layers and maintenance to actually be somewhat secure.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sandboxed Google play service is actually more secure than MicroG.

it also has a Google Services compatibility that would allow you to use Google services, which would allow Google to harvest a lot of data from you

So does MicroG. Actually that's kind of the point of both. Google play services exist to provide, well, Google play services like push notification which uses the Google servers. That's the case with Sandboxed Google play and GrapheneOS.

OSes like CalyxOS or Lineage have microG

Yes. Pre-installed. That's kind of a problem if you don't want to use them in a specific profile. Also it's quite a security issue since it needs signature spoofing to work which is insecure by definition.

has the ability to use Mozilla network location to stop google from getting that data

That alone doesn't stop Google from getting your location data. Only not giving the your location data does this. On GrapheneOS you do this by... not enabling the location permission for any Google services including the play services.

Also by default GrapheneOS already uses GrapheneOS servers for location data and you can set your own proxy in the location settings

That's basically everything about it. Yes, battery life is an issue on GrapheneOS with sandboxed Google play service, but well, at least it just has the permissions of a normal app. Not a privileged system app that pretends to be another app to work.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah but those are the issues that I have. The idea is to have a private phone where you don't have to worry about Google harvesting your data and keeping it forever. But when you have an OS that has all these features and then use the Google services that take all that data, what is the point?

Also it’s quite a security issue since it needs signature spoofing to work which is insecure by definition.

According to the last paragraph here, the spoofing at least in Calyx is limited to only microG. It's less secure than a sandboxed thing, but I don't think it's gonna be that bad.

[+] random65837 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's true that you can choose not to give Google the location data or any other thing for that matter, but wouldn't that hinder the functionality of the apps that need it? I believe there is no choice here, unless I'm missing something.

If you want to use something like Pokemon Go or whatever, your data is going to go to Google. Or if you use apps that use the Google notification servers, wouldn't Google be able to use that data (I don't know if they're able to actually read the notifications, I'm just assuming).

I'm not shilling for OEM ROMs or attacking anything, but I wanna feel actually justified in the hassle and potential downgrade of the digital experience when I move to another ROM.

[+] random65837 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Sure the security is good and all but what about the privacy aspect? That's what I worry about. Like I said, I believe Android is secure enough as is, but the dependence on all the Google services is what makes it less private. Using Graphene sure does increase security, but it cannot do much in terms of being private.

It can reduce the amount of data that goes to Google. But if you use non-privacy-respecting apps, then you're SOL. My question is that, given all of the privacy issues that Graphene doesn't (and probably cannot) address, does it still make sense to install from a privacy standpoint?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

It isn't less private than MicroG and Sandboxed so Google gets even less data

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

As you said, proper google services instead of microG. It's been a bit since I used it, but it wasn't great back then.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

GrapheneOS itself is great, but the GrapheneOS community is toxic. Something to consider. If you want deGoogled Android without the drama, consider CalyxOS.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Honestly, I don't mind the drama. I just want answers to my specific questions about privacy without people mentioning security all the time. But thanks mate

[–] Cryophilia 6 points 1 year ago

https://blog.privacyguides.org/2022/04/21/grapheneos-or-calyxos/

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sandboxed Google Play provides better security, privacy and usability. Why that is, as well as your question about Calyx vs Graphene, is answered in this Privacy Guides Blogpost.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

It says that trusting Mozilla for the location backend is the same as trusting Google. I may be biased or something because I use Mozilla services but that's just insane to me. Mozilla's business model is not the same as Google's. Are there no network based location services for Graphene other tjan Google? GPS location sucks sometimes and I'd like to have a proper alternative if possible.