this post was submitted on 26 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 127 points 1 year ago (20 children)

What the fuck is wrong with 34% of Americans?

[–] [email protected] 30 points 1 year ago

They're probably mostly rich or retired, so they can take as much vacation as they want anyway.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I think there’s a lot of good old moralization going on out there. «Young people are getting lazy» etc. Especially from old rich people who got everything handed to them.

[–] w2tpmf 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There's got to be a big chunk of that percentage that want MORE vacation time that Europe.

At least based on my sample size of 1.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

They're probably employers.

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[–] RestrictedAccount 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Are there 34% of Americans who own businesses?

Edit: math before coffee

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I work at a semiconductor fab in Portland Oregon, we get 5 weeks paid vacation. There''s a fairly large group of my coworkers who never use their vacation or sicktime out of principal.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Only because it's not a law. In Germany, it's usual to get 30 days of vacation, 20 are legal minimum. Your employer is required to make sure, you actually take at least 20 days and can be fined otherwise.

[–] ThwaitesAwaits 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The government forcing you to relax and have fun, or else, is wonderfully absurd. Feels like a paradox to be honest.

Our government doesn't care about us beyond how much value we can produce for the Oligarchs. The exception being certain natural disasters. Even then, how much they care is dependent on whether it gets national coverage, or international coverage.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

No, they force your employer. Not you. That's a huge difference. You're free to do whatever you want, but your employer has to make sure, you actually get that time.

[–] Shard 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The government are not "forcing" anyone to relax.

The government is forcing companies to allow you to take your PTO. Without said laws there are almost certainly going to be companies that will shame workers/create hostile environments to force employees into not taking their PTO.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Americans and voting against their best interests. Name a better duo.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Working in bad conditions so you can talk down to people that you perceive as lesser humans than you is the #1 interest for a lot of the country.

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[–] PP_BOY_ 51 points 1 year ago (6 children)

66% of Americans will not change their voting habits or make any effort to get what they want.

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[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I really hate the term "vacation days." I'm not going to Disneyland everytime I'm out of the office. Most of the time its stuff like having the HVAC technician over during their 4-hour service call window; taking my family member to have surgery; recovering from the flu/covid; taking a mental health day or catch-up day for weekday-only errands.

This might be where some of the missing 34% are not agreeing for more days. The label is part of the problem. Hell I want more vacation days so that I CAN squeeze an actual vacation in there.

[–] RustedSwitch 19 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I don’t know if this holds true outside of my awareness, but I am only hearing folks refer to it as PTO (paid time off) these days. The place I work goes as far as to blend all types of days into one bucket, to be used for sick time or whatever the person needs.

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[–] [email protected] 37 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

The USA had a chance to start again and get so many things right. So why are they so backwards with some things?

We've had legally-protected paid leave in the UK for almost a century now. Granted, we were the first in the world, but most of Europe and many other countries now have similar protections. Many of which are more generous than the UK's.

That's not to mention the myriad of other laws and protections covering unfair dismissal (the "at will" system is fucking dystopian, sorry), a years paid maternity leave, statutory sick pay, mandatory employer pension contributions, working time regulations and mandatory redundancy pay. All of which have no federally-enforced equivalent.

I'm honestly a bit shocked that only 66% support PTO. Surely it's a no-brainer?

Is it a size thing? Is the idea of looking out for each other just untenable in such a large, diverse place?

I can't imagine what it must be like to live in a place where 34% of people have such an individualistic "I've got mine" mentality, that they don't even support mechanisms that virtually every other developed country collectively agrees is the fucking minimum needed in order to live reasonable existence.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

US has PTO, it is just much less than Europe.

The reason there are people who don’t support it is because of conservative shame culture. If you aren’t rich, it is because you are lazy. They don’t want to take anything away from the rich because they earned it and deserve it. If that means the worker suffers, then the worker should just work harder so they can be rich too.

[–] Frozengyro 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

US does not have guaranteed PTO. Most places do give some, but not everywhere. Even those who do give very little.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

The US had a strong labor movement before the 2nd world war and into the 1950s when union membership was at its highest and the middle class was thriving and wealth inequality was a fraction of what it is today. What killed it was the Cold war and the spectre of communism which was used by conservatives (there were conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans back then) as a bludgeon to effectively kill the labor movement over the following decades until Reagan finally put a stake through its heart in the 80s.

That's the short version anyway. There's obviously a lot more to it.

In any case, the good news is that a lot of people seem to be waking up and demanding change. Union membership is on the rise as are other encouraging signs. I'm way too jaded to be optimistic about it, but I'm not as pessimistic as I once was. My own union has won two strikes in the last 5 years, for example.

On the flipside, the left has managed to pretty thoroughly alienate a huge chunk of blue collar workers who should be their natural constituency, so that's not great either.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Well they'd best join a union then, because those cunts upstairs aren't just going to give it to them.

Although personally I'd rather work through August just to avoid millions of families with kids everywhere. Holidays are so expensive at that time of year.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The way the law works here is you get five weeks vacation every year and have a right (but not an obligation) to take four of those consecutive between June and August. You must however take four weeks of vacation every year, the rest you can save for up to five years (before you have to take them as well).

Oh, and to really blow your mind, if you get sick during vacation, those count as sick days and you get the vacation back.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

I hope that this example can show that more humane treatment of workers is attainable and realistic. We were not given these rights by benevolent overlords; our parents, grandparents etc. fought for them, and so can you. Unionize!

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Although personally I’d rather work through August just to avoid millions of families with kids everywhere. Holidays are so expensive at that time of year.

Here in Denmark

in most places at least, you can choose the times you want vacation. Some places to "force" their employees to take 3 weeks during june - august... but then you still got 3 other weeks you can sprinkle around the year. (a lot of other places dont care)

and yes, i know a lot of people who spend their main vacations in may, or september. My mother mostly travels in the off-months (hotels, plane tickets etc, are also cheaper)

[–] Steveanonymous 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Start voting for the people that subscribe to those ideals

Stop voting for idiot billionaires that are against those things

[–] metallic_substance 7 points 1 year ago

But... the idiot billionaires back the racist, sexist, and xenophobic policies that match with my deeply ignorant ideology!

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Who could be against more free time!? The remaining 34% must think granting workers more vacation time is tantamount to communism.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

The same people who have Medicare and don’t believe in socialized medicine.

Baby boomers and the silent generation need to get dementia and gtfo

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I bet a good number of those people are the ones who get lots of vacation time already and are just pulling others down because they want to be treated better than average. It's like how there's people who oppose raising min wage because "they don't want burger flippers to make the same pay as they do". Crabs in a bucket mentality.

There's a lot of Americans who sadly think that way. We see it with the student loan forgiveness efforts, too. They can't be happy with others getting nice things unless they themselves are still somehow getting better things. To not mince words, they lack empathy and are selfish.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Now what percent want to fully be in Europe?

Because fuck what America is today.

[–] RGB3x3 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hi, me! I'm going to move to Europe within the next 6 years and never look back. Fuck this country, it's not going to get any better any time soon. The daily lifestyle is just horrible.

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[–] Geek_King 10 points 1 year ago (8 children)

How many PTO days do European's get a year? I'd like to compare to where I'm at after starting a new job here in the US (US native).

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

UK.

28 days PTO plus bank holidays.

28 days full-pay self-certificate sick leave.

6 months full pay with Dr's cert, beyond that 50% pay for 24 months.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have to do the accent the whole time ?

[–] ilikekeyboards 11 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unfortunately yes but at least you don't have to shoot up high schools anymore

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (10 children)

20-30 paid days depending on country and factors like your seniority.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Add to that unlimited sick time (there are conditions though).

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Oh right, yes. In Poland the employer pays 80% for your sick time up to a month and then the social security takes over.

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[–] JulesWinnfield 12 points 1 year ago

30+1 (my company gives everyone an extra day in December for a "shopping day").

Plus, of course, paid sick leave, with no ridiculous limitations.

UK, working for a German company.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Netherlands hete

. Sick leave, unlimited (first 2 days are at your expense, the rest is payed in some degree).

. Pto (zorgverlof, care time) so you can take care of your kid, yourself, mom, whatever, unlimited but it's either unpayed or you use vacation days for that. Can not be refused by boss.

.Vacation days, minimum of 22 (some jobs get 37 by law) to be spent on pto, vacation, a day to the zoo, whatever.

.Overtime (if your boss agrees) is turned into either more vacation days or payed at 100% or more. Very subject to the type of job.

There is A LOT of information on this, and this barely scratches the surface, but this is what you can expect here

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[–] Naja_Kaouthia 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What the hell is a “vacation”? I end up having to use all my PTO for days I’m sick or if I need to go to an appointment or my kids are home sick.

[–] DV8 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

PTO is such a weird thing from the outside. Why don't you just strike and set everything on fire? No need to vote to get human rights...

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Because we're indoctrinated from birth to believe, consciously or subconsciously, that property and "the economy" are sacred and more valuable than either human rights or actual human life itself.

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[–] SirQuackTheDuck 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days from their employer each year

Doesn't this also decrease if you get sick?

I got properly ill the day before I went on holiday, and was out for about a week. All those sick days didn't count against my vacation days.

Furthermore, my vacation days are (to an extend) transferable, which meant I had 31 vacation days this year. That just seems normal policy here (25 vacation days is fairly common in mid-range jobs).

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