this post was submitted on 08 Oct 2024

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Are you cisgender? Gender Survey Result: Majority of active Hexbear users say No and Maybe. (imgur.artemislena.eu)

submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/3635039

Various thoughts:

Around 20 people weren't properly covered by the gender categories, obviously we're trying to be as inclusive as possible and a different approach will be tried next time

There were about 600 respondents, which gives us a accurate sampling of the active userbase. If you multiply any number by 3, you'll get a fairly accurate representation of the full userbase each week. This means there are around 800-900 people who don't identify fully as cis each week on this site.

Nearly 300 trans/gender diverse/questioning people unanimously agree that hexbear is an inclusive space

There was so much data on gender that I was really struggling to find a way to convey the data that wasnt a pie chart, graph, or an incomprehensible kalaeidoscope. If you have an idea on how to beautify the data, you can download the raw data here: https://pad.artemislena.eu/file/#/2/file/xzy4pck8on+oZp9yGRUIezR+/ - I further anonymized this data by removing time of response and any specific comments, I don't think it would be easy for anyone to figure out who is who.

There were a couple of text responses that really needed further elaboration, I noted hexbear's rules next to these comments

I'll probably be doing a demographics survey sometime in the future, including basic fairly anonymous stuff like "what region were you born in" "where do the languages you speak originate" "would you describe yourself as a POC" "what age range are you in".

The percentage of people answering they were cisgender increased by 8% than the previous survey. This could be for a myriad of reasons, such as cis people being afraid trans people will hunt them down in the public thread and assassinate them. Anonymity may have made them feel safer to respond. Regardless, way more people responded this time, which signifies that people felt safer responding to the cryptpad or it was easier to do. The leading question was a bit more inclusive than last time, but I think I'll include both questions (are you transgender / gender diverse and are you cisgender) to see how people respond.

We have a lot of people that aren't binary trans on this site.

Some of the questions were pretty funky and we got a lot of fuzzy responses on them as a result. In particular "After you realized you were trans/gender diverse, how long did it take for you to begin to act on it?" and "At what age did you begin transition?" caused a lot of friction, I think I will ask more vague questions in the future that lead to a path of more specific questions to capture better data, and to save people time. Questions like "Do you feel your gender transition had a defined starting point?" and some further ones.

Around 20 people each week on this site are cis she/hers, which is very low and roughly the same as last time. I feel like if hexbear ever starts hosting other federated stuff (like a federated tiktok or something) and can hook into it natively with lemmy, we'd see a better ratio.

I tried to be very sure any data with >2 people on it was clearly legible, I think some people might find it fun that there are others with their same fairly specific classifications per this survey lurking around on the site.

Overall I feel like the survey was a success despite some bumps.

You can find the other surveys/links here: https://hexbear.net/post/3016455

I made these graphs on company time

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[–] bi_tux 14 points 3 days ago (2 children)

but why do the people on one of the most queer instances support the most queerphobic countries in the world? (Russia, China, etc.)?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The USA lodging a bomb in the house of a Chinese/Russian etc. queer person doesn't make those countries stop being queerphobic. And now that queer person doesn't have a home. There is no way to bomb only queerphobes.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)

Isn't hexbear like, one of the "transphobe" ones?...

I'm sorry if this is incorrect and i just insulted all of hexbear :(

EDIT: okay, I understand now that hexbear has dramatically changed and that they are actually a lot more strict on the rules than blahaj zone. People keep commenting the same thing on this and I keep being pinged...

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

No they're not. Hexbear defederated blahaj.zone because we were considering defederating them because of their habit of co-ordinated dogpiling and harassment. A hexbear admin approached me asking me if we could make it work, because lots of hexbear users were keen to use 196 (our largest community), but the explicitly anti tanky leaning of the 196 mod team was a barrier for hexbear participation in that community. Ultimately, because I wasn't willing to over-ride the 196 mods and tell them how to run their community, the hexbear community turned on blahaj.zone, and defederated us.

The message from the hexbear admin was "We want to use 196, but it's anti tanky" but somehow, that morphed in to a hexbear community opinion of "196 mods are transphobic, and the blahaj admins won't do anything about it".

The truth is, hexbear and blahaj.zone both prioritise the needs of trans folk more than any other instances you will find on lemmy. But hexbear is driven by a political ideology, and blahaj.zone is not (though we have communities that are). And that difference in ideological perspective drives all of the rest of the noise and tension between our instances.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

aaah now I remmember, the tankies, riiight... thanks for explaining!

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 days ago

It was actually the people who were extremely assmad about tankies who were the ones who were the barrier to federation, rather than the "tankies", from my understanding

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 days ago (1 children)

They ban anyone and anything with a hint of transphobia, to the point of defederating blahaj for not being hard on transphobes enough.

When the site was first created there was a big problem with stupidpols, and under the guidance of TransComrade69 underwent a purge of all transphobes on the site, including even people who were consistently downvoting posts/comments by trans users. This TC69 Thought, so to speak, continues to this day.

On the Hexbear thread there's talk of doing a purge of mysogynists next, seeing how there aren't many cis women on the site judging by this poll.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

as far as I remember, blahaj wanted to defederate cuz of users complaining about hexbears being annoying with the imperialist kind of communism but then hexbear defederated first

edit: also, I don't see how blahaj could be seen as not hard enough on transphobes :p

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago (3 children)

/c/196 isn't very well moderated at all... It's the biggest community on there

Also "imperialist kind of communism" lmao

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I personally monitor the reports that hit blahaj.zone. If you have an example of transphobia that was reported but allowed to stand by me or a 196 mod, I want to know about it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My complaint with transphobia/misogyny on this site is mostly that I come across posts that are clearly one of the two (or both) that have been up for days. Meaning that no one reported it (if reports do get handled like you say) and that the mods of the community clearly didn’t have a problem with it when they came across it. I report it when I see it but I don’t come here often due to the transmisogyny and if the post has been up for days then the harm has already been done…

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I ban transphobes when I see them, even if the post has been up for a while before I see it. As you say, there is zero point in just deleting a post after it's been up for days, because the damage has been done. The post gets removed, and the person gets banned.

That being said, the source of the the transphobia the federates to us is external instances, so it's not a problem with "this site". It's a problem with other instances, ran by cis folk, who don't see or understand dog whistles and the harm of "just asking questions" type transphobia. And for posts like that, a DM to me is useful, because it can get the account generating the content removed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

For me the posts that are problematic are always in 196 and I do think that it’s the responsibility of the mods of that community to keep it safe for (trans) women.

Do I really have to be the one to keep track of all the problematic posts if I want to convince you that it’s a systemic issue?

The main issue (but not the only one) for me is the fetishisation of trans women that is a recurring theme in that community. I’ve mentioned this before but apparently the only part that people picked up from that was that I a problem with ‘lewd memes’. I think that there is a real problem if all lewd memes are focused on the objectification of (trans) women, when most of the traffic is people (mostly cis men) from other instances who do not know how to be normal around trans people. It creates an unsafe environment for the sometimes very young trans women there who are encouraged to objectify their own bodies in unhealthy ways. Lewd posting is fine if it’s in a safe space, but 196 (and honestly almost all public spaces on the internet) really isn’t safe for the demographic that deals with the most sexual violence on and offline.

I don’t mean to sound too critical because I do appreciate this site and there is a reason I keep coming back. But also I think that this problem needs to be taken much more seriously.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

No one, including the trans fem users of this instance or of 196 are reporting the issues you're describing, and I haven't encountered them myself (though I rarely use 196). So yes, if it's happening, I do need help identifying the cis folk objectifying trans folk.

I can't solve a problem I can't see.

If the issue isn't explicitly the cis folk responding, but more the trans folk themselves choosing to put themselves out there, then that's not really something that can be addressed. I'm not going to decide for them what's appropriate for them to do with their own bodies and lives.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

also, I don't see how blahaj could be seen as not hard enough on transphobes :p

iirc the 196 comm had at least one transmed/truscum mod at the time of defederation, plus admins for Blahaj Zone refused to condemn an admin from another instance who said some transphobic shit, including accusing a Hexbear user of pretending to be trans for internet sympathy points or some bizarre shit.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Who was this trans med? Trans med folk are explicitly not welcome, and never have been, and no mention of trans med mods was reported to me, despite me being in direct communication with a hexbear admin.

Trans meds are banned, and I don't care who they are or what they moderate. My stance on that pre-dates lemmy itself.

I have also defederated from and publicly called out instances and admins for transphobia and harassment, and have zero hesitation to do so again, so that second accusation is a strange one...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

honestly, it was a year ago and I don’t remember specifics, I just remember there was transphobia from mods and screenshots to back it up.

I also remember the admins here “forgave” an admin named snow or something (from programming.dev, I think?) for his transphobic responses to a hexbear user, and users here even talked about how hexbear users must be faking transness because they don’t act the same way liberal (conservative) trans people do.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

I also remember the admins here “forgave” an admin named snow or something (from programming.dev, I think?) for his transphobic responses to a hexbear user

That's a really interesting spin on the issue. The admin in question posted transphobic comments regarding a hexbear user, and called blahaj.zone the "good" kind of trans folk.

As a response to that, we made a public announcement that we were defederating from programming.dev unless the matter was addressed, and ultimately, it was addressed, so we didn't defderate.

Which is to say, an admin on an instance that wasn't ours, directed transphobia against another instance that wasn't ours, without really involving us, and we made plans to defederate as a result.

It amazes me, that somehow, blahaj.zone is in the wrong for "forgiving" programming.dev when ~~hexbear not only "forgave" the admin in question, but never planned on taking action regarding the issue in the first place.~~ hexbear did the same and programming.dev is currently listed on their white list of federated instances

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

oh didnt know about that mod, hopefully they got removed but I dont like the 196 mods much in general :p

also what does condemn mean there?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (2 children)

edit: also, I don’t see how blahaj could be seen as not hard enough on transphobes :p

Afaik hexbear's main problem was with an alleged lack of moderation on c/196 regarding chasers

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I dont think Ive ever seen chasers (not getting banned) here, but Ive seen people not liking how horny 196 gets sometimes

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Ive seen people not liking how horny 196 gets sometimes

I'm not a fan of it, I sub to blahaj because it's a trans instance, but I got sick of having weirdly horny shit in my feed randomly so I unsubbed from 196

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (8 children)

Isn’t hexbear like, one of the “transphobe” ones?

the opposite, actually! Hexbear is rabidly supportive of trans people, and defederated from Blahaj Lemmy over its comparatively lax handling of transphobia.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Hexbear used to have a lot of transphobes around 3 to 4 years ago, but now (as can be seen by the survey) it is one of the most accepting places for queer and queer adjacent identities.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Too bad it has... other issues.

[–] Valmond 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You mean they are pro tankies?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I hear they're woke too

[–] Valmond 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Is that some "ironic" joke I don't get?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Conservatives vaguepost about "the woke", liberals vaguepost about "the tankies", I take them both equally seriously

[–] Valmond 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Well 'woke' is just a stupid word to rile up conservatives.

A tankie is a well defined, and old term, designing sheep-people blindly following the dictatorship in the Kremlin during the Czechoslovakia revolt.

Today we use it for the same type of people following the kremlins orders and/or dictators fals flagging as communists. Like Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Putin, etcetera.

I mean it isn't that hard to understand or look up, is it?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Oh I thought tankie meant anyone to the left of Biden, because that's how it's being used in practical terms. Cool lore I guess?

Also you know the whole "sending in the tanks" thing comes from Khrushchev right? He was anti stalin- which is why the term reminds me of the way conservatives use 'woke' to indicate to other conservatives that the designated target is 'bad'

Liberals use 'tankie' the same way, regardless of its historical meaning, cause pretty much anyone sufficiently anti-war seems to get called one

[–] Valmond 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No, tankie is from the fifties, nothing to do with Biden or Trump.

Khruschev, Lenin, Brezhnev etc, all raging murderous dictators, just some were worse than others. Kruschev got the world the closest to WW3 and nuclear anihilation, so there's that.

"Liberals" is another of those throw around words that has lost its meaning. I mean we all want to be liberal as in free, but it seems it's just used to show people who are supposedly stupid?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If it's from the 50s and unrelated to our politics, why are people who support places like Palestine getting called tankies then? Just feels like an ingroup-outgroup label.

Liberal I always took to mean pro-capitalism, hence why communists use it derisively.

For conservatives it's used derisively too, but more because they're not doing the warmongering with enough toxic masculinity

[–] Valmond 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Why on earth would it be unrelated to our politics just because it's from the fifties? Speaking about Palestine and thus Israel, the problem the world is facing today in the middle east started in the fifties, don't forget history or you're damned to repeat it as they say.

If someone labels a pro Palestinian stance as "tankie" well then, if there is nothing else to it, they are just wrong.

I think you might like the term neo-liberal more then? Capitalism in its base version is quite good imo trying to meke better use of things, it's the neo liberal capitalism that makes everything a hell hole. In my opinion ofc.

Conservatives are just well, yeah, I guess we can agree on that one 👍🏻.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

the problem the world is facing today in the middle east started in the fifties, don’t forget history or you’re damned to repeat it as they say.

Not to just link you to a bunch of my comments, but it started long before the 50s.

https://lemmy.ml/post/20423526/13755171

Capitalism in its base version is quite good imo trying to meke better use of things, it’s the neo liberal capitalism that makes everything a hell hole. In my opinion ofc.

Disagree on the first half, capitalism has lots and lots of issues. Doing whataboutism re: other systems is not convincing, nor is blaming its failures on 'neo' liberals

Part of the cornerstone of what you're calling neoliberalism was free trade to enforce using international labor to break labor unions. This manifested as finance and industrial capital having different goals (and all manufacturing getting moved to china). Finance capital makes little of material value (lots of value on paper), and does not employ unionized workers to do it, so it was prioritized by policy to suppress American unionism.

Industrial companies like auto manufacturers transitioned to just selling loans to buy cars assembled elsewhere as their business model (Finance).

[–] Valmond 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Of course it started before the fifties, but thats just drives my point home, right?

And I didn't say "classic" (or what you'd call it) capitalism hasn't its flaws lol. But IMO it also has its good parts. Like medication and computers. Sure, can be better. A lot better.

Neo liberalism is crap though.

For me, the most important thing is democracy. Because if you don't have democracy you'll eventually be living in a one guy dictatorship. It just happens every time at a 100% rate throughout history.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Because if you don’t have democracy you’ll eventually be living in a one guy dictatorship.

Democracies aren't really predisposed to avoid that, just look at America now.

Popular tyrants were pretty vilified in history because they would try to do things unpopular with powerful oligarchs, like forgiving debts so that the broader economy wouldn't collapse and people wouldn't be forced into lifetimes of servitude.

In the historical example I'm referring to, the oligarchs called in Rome to save them from those tyrants.

Not convinced that deposing those tyrants made things any better for the normal people stuck paying the oligarchs afterwards. (the oligarchs wrote the history though and said it was really cool actually)

But IMO it also has its good parts. Like medication and computers.

If you're ascribing all technical progress to capitalism as some sort of credit to it as a system I'm going to have to disagree too. Medicine existed long before capitalism for one, and scientific progress often happens in spite of the market capture rather than because of it.

[–] Valmond 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you think the USA is some spearhead for democracy then I must incite you to travel.

Medicine before 1950 was basically leeches and blood letting, one of the things capitalism has made wonder with is modern medicine (and dentistry). We should give credit whete it is due.

I don't know what would have happened if Nero would have been deposed of one specific day, they didn't have a modern democracy and they deposed of eachother all the time among themselves lol. Weird example IMO.

But I get it, you're a pro "communist" I guess? I'm a socio democrat I guess. Take the best of capitalism and power to the people and take care of the poor and needy.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Medicine before 1950 was basically leeches and blood letting, one of the things capitalism has made wonder with is modern medicine (and dentistry). We should give credit whete it is due.

They did manage to make the best healthcare for rich people in human history.

You strike me as a european chauvinist.

I don’t know what would have happened if Nero would have been deposed of one specific day, they didn’t have a modern democracy and they deposed of eachother all the time among themselves lol. Weird example IMO.

I'm just as confused because I referenced something from 500BC and you're talking about nero. We clearly have different historical understandings.

But I get it, you’re a pro “communist” I guess? I’m a socio democrat I guess. Take the best of capitalism and power to the people and take care of the poor and needy.

I don't have any issue with communists, I work with many lol. Social democracy sounds good in theory but eventually you run out of other nations to exploit abroad.

[–] Valmond 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Lol so it's time to be insulting because you don't know what to say, European I am, that doesn't make the truth less true.

Rome had emperor Nero, you talked about rome. If you think about revolutions in rome 500 BC then I wonder why. Maybe the American school system isn't very good?

Communism is like Nazism, something we stomped out and that should never again be tried, what an idiotic idea for starters. It never works, never have, never will. Guess gullible people will think that it's the new cool or something smh.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If you think about revolutions in rome 500 BC then I wonder why. Maybe the American school system isn’t very good?

You're really in no position to be calling me uneducated lol. I was referring to when Rome intervened against Greece, to rescue their oligarchs who were getting their property taken away by popular tyrants.

you managed to both miss the intent and drag out one point across multiple posts while failing to even get the century right- It's just projection when you call me bad faith if this is how you behave.

Communism is like Nazism

Guess gullible people will think that it’s the new cool or something smh.

European Liberals have never forgiven the soviets for saving them from Nazism.

[–] Valmond 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You should learn how to express yourself better, no one is in your head listening to "it was 500bc", you gotta explain it yourself. You're doing a very bad job doing it.

Yeah sure we're so angry that the USSR saved, ... wait! That they started world war 2 with the Nazis. Yeah we won't forget or forgive that.

I also like how you confound brutal dictatorships with this good happy communism too.

Yeah, I'm not your average uneducated friend lol we go to school over here.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That they started world war 2 with the Nazis. Yeah we won’t forget or forgive that.

This is a trope, how are you claiming my historical knowledge is faulty if this is what yours is.

A bunch of the Allies had nonaggression pacts with Hitler- the USSR only signed theirs after the allies let Germany occupy Czechoslovakia in 1938:

I have plenty of issues with the USSR, but that is an extremely lazy point the like of which I've heard repeated for decades and it still makes no goddamn sense

Yeah, I’m not your average uneducated friend lol we go to school over here.

You seemed completely confused when I referenced the 30 tyrants, no need to try to cope

[–] Valmond 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Oh, it's the historians who are wrong. Also I think you are confounding discussions with someone else.

Anyway it was not fun to discuss with a tankie, I'm gonna stop righ here, see you in a gulag.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago

I only seem to get called a tankie by libs on tech websites for having a historical understanding of the world. have fun repeating the same 4-5 lines the next time someone says something bad about capitalism lmao

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago

Yeah they do be posting about beans too much on there sometimes...

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