I remember doing this in factorio
this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2024
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My first reaction was how stupid this is. Dirt, debris and other things will get on the panels and cause lots of problems, but after a few minutes I realized it's actually quite brilliant.
There are three major costs of solar, the panels, the location, and the wiring + inverters. If the tracks are used as the wires (extremely low resistance paths back to an inverter), the location is wasted space so basically free, and the inverter can be placed anywhere along the path to remove the power from the tracks, the cost of this comes down to mainly the cost of the panel, which is actually pretty cheep these days.
The real challenges will be in cleaning & maintenance, vandalism, and modifying the track to limit the conductive paths (assuming they're used for this).
Standing next to trains as they pass, or on one's with open decks, you'll know they produce a lot of wind. I assume under the train this is even stronger, with a strong low pressure area. This should be able to clear most obstructions without an issue whenever a train passes. Sure, it'll also toss more on, but there's some equilibrium that it'll reach and it shouldn't ever get worse. My guess is that's well before it is a major issue for the panels.
The cleanliness of the panels isn't actually as big a deal as it's made out to be. Like yeah, they can't be completely obscured, but you'd be surprised at how fucking filthy they can be and still make juice. Or half-or more- covered with trees, or other shade.
Right now, my panels are covered in enough crap I really should hose them off, and they're still kicking 20 amps. So ahhh... fuck it. Maybe it'll rain and I won't have to.
Same with cloudy days-sometimes I get more power on cloudy days because the panels don't get at hot. Hell, some streetlights put out enough light to harvest energy from-but they're largely getting replaced with LED's. Sad face?
I expect with the type of traffic going on between rails, these will need vanishingly little maintenance. I hope it goes well
If the tracks are used as the wires
They're not. Swiss rails are extra made so that you can walk over them. All electricity goes overhead for security reasons. If anything, they would probably tap into this overhead-grid.
cleaning & maintenance
possibly. But I can very easily imagine specialized trains cleaning them once every day
vandalism
not really a problem here in switzerland
modifying the track to limit the conductive paths (assuming they’re used for this).
They're most likely not used for this. All electricity is overhead for security reasons, routing solar energy through the rails would destroy that. Doing that (beyond the 100m test-track) would mean a prolongued political discussion.
So I have a solar setup-older panels, like 15 years old. They can be 3/4 obscured by a building or whatever, and still make 85% of what they're rated to.
Which is fucking awesome. Right now, they're covered in so much dust I can see the 'clean' spots where the morning dew condensed on them, and they're still kicking 20 amps, about 15 more than I actually need.
Daily cleaning? Way excessive. Monthly? Maybe, probably less. Not a whole lot going on in between rails.
I'd be way more worried about tweakers trying to steal the wiring
Throw a few of those sexy lady mud flaps on the back of a train with a hose. Darn near auto squeegee!
Seems interesting. As far I know I think why not, as long as you place Dragging Equipment Detectors (example) before and after the installation areas. Seems a good a place as any for solar panels, especially on only occasionally frequented lines.
At least for right now it's just a test on a 100-meter length of track, but this reeks of a startup trying to innovate its way out of NIMBYs not wanting to put solar panels where they actually belong without considering why nobody has put solar panels in the middle of a railroad track before (cough rocks, dust, wildlife, vibration, and vandalism cough).
PV Magazine is neat for reading about potential new innovations, but one thing I really dislike about it is that it basically just regurgitates what solar companies say about themselves in press releases in a way that's completely uncritical. For instance:
Similarly, removal and installation tests will be carried out to demonstrate that the Sunways pilot installation is perfectly adapted to the constraints related to maintenance work and the operation of the line.
One more reason. The reason they tell people not to lay on the tracks under the train, the freaking cables and chains that could come loose and dangle under the cars and drag along the ground that would cut you in half the long way. Those loose parts would just destroy the solar panels.
Maybe they only put them on the "Off Road" Tracks of the Street Trains. They usually have a covered bottom (like Cars) to avoid debris flinging into its soft parts.... but that will only solve one Issue of the many MANY there are. (Lots of Ifs here)
Solar panels need to be on every home and how new builds in many countries still don't require them baffles me.
Houses are expensive enough, no need to make it worse
The cost of solar panels on a new build is extremely marginal for the long term benefits they provide to the owners of the house, the environment and the general electric grid. They should absolutely be a requirement.
They paid back in around 5 years on my moms roof, and that was 11 years ago, and panels are waaay cheaper now than they were back then.
Might be cause they make roof redos or fumigation even more expensive. I had a customer say they were paying 3k to get their panels removed so they could pay another 3k to fumigate the house. Almost doubled the price.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that we should require panels in new builds somehow but I don't know what the best option is.
Why did they have to remove the panels in order to fumigate? If the company couldn't work around them then they should have found a different company.
You drop heavy ass tarps on the roof and roll them to tent a house, I'm taking couple hundred pound tarps. The workers need to be able to walk on the roof to set them up, the tarps can and have damaged panels so companies in the area don't fumigate with them on anymore.
I work closely with a fumigation company and that's what they've told us.
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anyone remember solar roadways?
This isn't nearly that dumb, because the train isn't actually riding directly on top of the solar cells.
But still, what is the point of this? What problem does this solve? It's not like solar power deployment is bottlenecked by a lack of space to put the panels.
This just makes it more expensive and more difficult to maintain for no reason.
Honestly if they’re using the power lines for the train and a cleaning attachment on the train I can see it.
It's close though, random shit gets dragged, kicked, dropped, etc all the time by trains.
A chain , cable, or wire comes loose on a car and goodbye panels and like all of them ...
If that happens you got bigger things to worry about. When did you last see a train dragging along debris?
A chain , cable, or wire comes loose on a car and goodbye panels and like all of them …
where are you from and when have you last seen a train?
If a chain, cable, or wire comes loose on a car then the panels are the least of anyone's worries. Also expect emergency brakes to kick in automatically. This is a train, not a bicycle.
I don't why they don't overhang them on frames. It'd cost more upfront, but hell alot cheaper than replacing the broken panels all the time.
They could pair that with sensors / cameras for hanging things. These are already being produced and installed on tracks.
Yeah, I looked up the French solar roadways after seeing this to see the headline of 'total disaster'. So as expected.
Lamps were "total disasters" until they weren't. Crosswalks even. Toilets in Seattle.
There are lots of things that were "total disasters" at one point but were developed into safe reliable things. That's not a reason to abandon an endeavor entirely, but a great reason to redirect or refine it.
Also, headlines are not news, and most non-electrical engineers, let alone journalists, know jack fucking shit about electrical engineering. EEVBlog did a great few videos about solar roadways and their flaws.
Why not just make solar roofs over things like parking lots and sidewalks? That way it can provide cover and power, you can use off the shelf panels, and they are unlikely to get damaged.
In France, solar panels are mandatory for roofs of commercial and industrial buildings and also car parks occupying 500 m² or more of ground surface need to be covered by solar.
And you can repair them without needing to shut down a whole railway. All these projects to put solar panels in novel places are totally pointless and solving a problem that doesn't exist.
Yeah until we literally run out of roofs, fields, parking lots, and fucking ocean space and are contemplating a fucking Dyson sphere I really don't understand these projects.
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I'm interested to see how this turns out, because I'm thinking this would significantly increase maintenance costs on those panels due to rocks being kicked up, vibration from the train, etc.
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Good thing they stopped emptying train toilets on the tracks.
Solar FREAKING ~~Road~~Railways!
I was looking for this comment so I can vent my extreme irritation to the world.
God, can this concept please die already‽ If you want to put solar panels where the cars/trains are, just 👏 fucking 👏 put 👏 them 👏 on 👏 top👏
Do not put them on the ground where they will get smushed and covered in dust and snow and dirt. do not. Just make a little roof for the train tracks/road/bike path/sidewalk/game trail/snail raceway and then put the panels on top of the roof and then if you're feeling fancy angle the panels to point towards the sun and if you're feeling really quite fancy then you can use bifacial panels to capture the backscatter from the ground and shit and then we can all be happy. solar ground no, solar roof yes, ground no roof yes. do not play the trolley problem with solar panels on the railroad tracks. we have been doing solar energy for decades and have fucking minmaxed this shit so why are they still trying to do this just STOP.
Fuck.
Person I'm responding to, please know that none of this is directed at you. I'm just sour right now and should get off the internet.
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