this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2024

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Poilievre says Israel hit on Iran nuclear sites would be gift to humanity (www.google.com)

submitted 6 days ago by xc2215x to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I support Jewish people, and the people of Israel. I do not support their ongoing genocide, landgrabs, and invasions.

If you support the genocide of the Palestinian people (note I did not say HAMAS, who can go fuck itself), and Israel seizing their land, then you might be the bad guys.

[+] DarthJon -14 points 5 days ago (2 children)

The only people "supporting genocide" are, ironically, the supposed peace activists who are screaming for intifada and cheering for Hamas and Hezbollah on our streets and college campuses.

Invasions? Do you mean when they retaliated against Gaza AFTER BEING INVADED on Oct 7? Or do you mean retaliating against Hezbollah, AFTER A YEAR OF HEZBOLLAH ROCKETS BEING FIRED INTO ISRAEL? Do you think that Israel should just sit back and let themselves be slowly destroyed attack by attack?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I think there's a big difference between protecting yourself and your people, and killing 40,000 civilians while whatever the hell this is.

Love to see you have eaten the poised, miss-information campaign about the peace protests.

So, yes, Israel is absolutely committing a genocide. I for one am against genocides, Are you? How many civilians are allowed to death while defending yourself?

Its currently nearly 40:1. Is that ok? if so, what about 80:1? 200:1? 400:1? When is enough enough?

[+] DarthJon -12 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Do you know how many civilians died in WWII protecting the world from the Nazis and Imperial Japan?

And no, Israel is not committing a genocide. Claiming "40,000 dead civilians" doesn't define a genocide. Besides, a large proportion of those "civilians" were actually Hamas fighters.

It's frightening how many people just soak up terrorist propaganda. What are you going to bring up next? The alleged hospital bombing? The fake famine? The so-called "Flour Massacre?"

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

“40,000 dead civilians” doesn’t define a genocide.

What is the criteria then to tell if Israel is committing genocide to Palestinians?

[+] DarthJon -7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Have you not been following the news on this? There is an actual definition of genocide in international law. "The definition contained in Article II of the Convention describes genocide as a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part. "

South Africa will not be able to make their case, which is probably why they asked for an extension on the date to provide evidence. No rational person can conclude from the facts that Israel has demonstrated the intent to destroy the Palestinian people, in whole or in part.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

So your criteria is a court conviction? I guess that's one way to answer, but I was more asking what's your criteria, meaning what's the criteria you'd personally use to think whether such court decision would be fair or not.

demonstrated the intent to destroy the Palestinian people

If that's what you mean as your answer, then I kinda agree. That's about what I would use to define genocide.

[–] DarthJon -5 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That's the definition of a genocide. The evidence has to support the conclusion that Israel has demonstrated intent to destroy the Palestinian people, and the evidence clearly doesn't show that. Here are a few key data points:

Even if we take the estimated death toll at face value, every military expert who has looked at the numbers has concluded that the civilian-to-combatant ratio is among the lowest (and possibly THE lowest) in the history of urban warfare. This suggests that the IDF has actually done a very good job of minimizing civilian casualties.
Even if we take the estimated death toll at face value, it represents maybe 1-2% of the entire Palestinian population. If Israel intended to destroy the Palestinian people, you would expect the death toll to be much higher.
The pace of civilian death slowed dramatically over the course of the war in Gaza as the IDF moved into different phases of the war. If Israel intended to destroy the Palestinian people, you would expect the pace of civilian death to remain constant and not diminish over time.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

If Israel intended to destroy the Palestinian people, you would expect the death toll to be much higher.

Would I? I don't know if I would. It's a big percentage to accomplish in a single campaign, and if you think about the compounding effect of the war on the lives of the remaining 98% it's still a pretty strong result. For example the UN reported that Gaza now has the biggest cohort of child amputees in modern history. Crippling a generation economically with sanctions and literally with shrapnel is a very powerful genocide tool, and so is claiming land - expanding the largest West Bank land grab in 30 years.

you would expect the pace of civilian death to remain constant and not diminish over time.

Again, I don't think I would. Maybe we have different visions of what an effective genocide strategy looks like in the XXI century.

[–] DarthJon 0 points 4 days ago

A single campaign? It's a war in a small, densely populated urban environment. If any other country executed this war, the death toll would be 10x higher. All the things you mentioned are horrible effects of war. That doesn't make it a genocide. It isn't even close to a genocide. The best way to avoid those terrible effects of war is to not start war in the first place by, for example, invading a sovereign nation and undertaking an orgiastic barbaric murder spree.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I wish Lemmy had some of the tools I had in Reddit, so I could mark you as "pro-extermination"

[–] njm1314 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

You can add user notes

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Ok, maybe my app doesn't support them, I'll check it on the desktop

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 days ago

It's definitely your app; Connect has it

[–] sailingbythelee -5 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Haha, you have just discovered the strong anti-Western, anti-Israel streak in Lemmy politics. I had to unsubcribe from the news forums because of it. Lemmy politics is pretty much the opposite of Reddit politics, and consciously so.