They're acting like a bratty kid. Wtf
this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2024
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So what're they gonna do about it?
EDIT: After further research, and a few high-school level insults, I’m fairly certain, given the mind-boggling complexities of what went down in 1948, (like to what degree the British are to blame for however much of the violence, or how did the population of Arab-Jews factor into anything) that I am seriously under qualified to make the assessment that I made. I’m not sure anyone even can (although numerous books have written about it, one of which my Zionist parents tried to push on me), unless they were a truly neutral, on the ground observer at the time. (Maybe it's another reason to have a different term, since saying it is loaded doesn't even seem sufficient.)
~~I wish people would stop throwing around the term Zionist willy-nilly. It’s not accurate to the situation, and I don’t understand why it was twisted into this weird genocidal war-mongering meaning that has nothing to do with the word itself.~~
Now, clearly, there is a large portion of the Israeli government/military/and I guess, population, that is intent on genocide and war mongering, and it’s sickening and they need to be stopped. ~~I just don’t like this term being used inaccurately. Maybe I’m being pedantic.~~
~~The term “Zionist” itself does not inherently imply war-mongering or a desire for genocide. Zionism originally refers to the movement for the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in what is now Israel, beginning in the late 19th century. It emerged as a response to centuries of persecution, including pogroms in Europe, and sought to create a safe, sovereign space for Jews.~~
~~However, over time, some have associated Zionism, especially in its modern form, with certain political actions taken by the State of Israel. Critics of Israeli policies, particularly regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, may use “Zionist” to refer to those who support aggressive military actions or expansionist policies, which clearly are contributing to extreme violence and the attempted genocide of Palestinians. This is where the connotation of war-mongering or even genocidal intent comes into play, often in highly polarized or emotionally charged discussions.~~
~~It’s important to note that many Zionists strongly reject these characterizations. They argue that Zionism is about self-determination for Jewish people. Equating Zionism with war-mongering or genocide often reflects political bias or misunderstanding of the broader spectrum of Zionist thought, which ranges from more moderate to more hardline positions.~~
The term can thus be polarizing, with very different meanings and implications depending on the speaker’s perspective and the context.
Precision in language is a worthy goal, and another thread and time would be a fine place for a discussion about Theodore Herzl being a gigantic piece of shit who was a wrecker for what may have been a nobler movement among successful high-status Jews in wealthier parts of the Pale of Settlement during one extremely narrow time and context.
Unfortunately, you can’t just start a conversation that’s the equivalent of “swastikas are good luck charms” without seeming like an asshole.
Oh I knew I would seem like an asshole. Fortunately this is the internet, and there aren't really penalties for that (for better or worse). And yes, I am actually very intrigued by the discussion you propose. I've also been reading further after people started replying to my comment. I'm fairly certain, given the mind-boggling complexities of what went down in 1948, (like to what degree the British are to blame for however much of the violence, or how did the population of Arab-Jews factor into anything) that I am seriously under qualified to make the assessment that I made. I'm not sure anyone even can (although numerous books have written about it, one of which my Zionist parents tried to push on me), unless they were a truly neutral, on the ground observer at the time. I think I will append my comment, but leave it up, since I own what I said, despite how views can rapidly evolve.
Thank you for clarifying, and good luck on your quest. Arab Jews and local Palestinian Jews later termed Mizrahi were treated particularly awfully by the Zionists, there was even a false-flag Zionist militia bombing of an Iraqi Jewish synagogue.
For your earlier questions, I recommend chapters 1 through 6 of Ten Myths About Israel by Ilan Pappé if you haven’t encountered it already.
https://www.versobooks.com/books/2430-ten-myths-about-israel
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